Jacqueline Bates & Amelia Lang on Student Loans, Part-Time Jobs, and Starting Careers in the Photo Industry

The California Sunday Magazine photography director Jacqueline Bates and Aperture associate publisher Amelia Lang recently recorded a conversation about building their careers, starting with the financial pressures and entry-level jobs that eventually led them to opportunities they never anticipated. The following is an excerpt of their full conversation, which was originally published by Rocket Science Magazine.

Amelia Lang: [W]hat has been the most precarious financial chapter of your professional life?

Jacqueline Bates: The years I was living in New York while studying at the School of Visual Arts and just starting out in magazines were the most difficult but also the most rewarding. For a few years during ungrad, when I was studying photography, I had three jobs—one was unpaid. I worked for two years at the Whitney Museum in the photo department. Another job was retouching nipples for a men’s magazine before the images went online. I babysat for the senior fashion editor at GQ every Saturday night and I did art returns for an art magazine. I always knew I wanted to work in the photography world somehow, but never as a freelance photographer. My photography was so personal—about my Italian-American family in Westchester, NY—I never thought that could translate to the editorial or commercial world. I had so many student loans and I was scared to default on them. I knew I had to get a full-time job somewhere. I looked at my friends who didn’t have those loans and they were able to take so many more chances than I ever could. I was so envious and so broke. Two weeks out of school, I got a job at Interview Magazine as their photo assistant, making less than 30K a year. It was stable. I was able to make my loan payments. I ate half a bagel for breakfast, the other half for lunch and we would always work late, even when not shipping, so I ate dinner at work a lot. Without that little perk, I wouldn’t have been able to pay rent and student loans.

…Tell me about your first years working in photo. How did you make it work?

A.L.: Similarly, I had several part-time jobs after I graduated from college. I moved back to San Francisco in 2007 from Portland, Oregon, where I studied art and U.S. history. There weren’t a lot of job opportunities in 2007-2008 (it wasn’t the best time to graduate college) and I ended up juggling several part-time projects. In doing so, however, I got to see a lot of different sides to the art world. I worked for an artist-in-residency program, managed a photographer’s studio, assisted an independent curator with a private photography collection, created a photo archive, helped to curate exhibitions, worked on arts and education initiatives, etc. It all swirled around photography—I think in part because there’s such a strong history of photography and photography community in Northern California.

J.B.: You and I did a geographical swap. You’re from Northern California, living in New York; I’m from New York, living in San Francisco. Tell me about the decision to move to New York…

A.L.: I always felt like [the Bay Area] was a special community… But eventually, it became too hard to juggle all those jobs. I also really love school, so I applied for both an internship at Aperture Foundation and a master’s degree in American Studies at Columbia University. I heard back that I was accepted at both places on the same day and I felt like it was a strong sign to make a big change. I had no money and I was twenty-five. But…I was really excited by the idea of an intense level of thinking and working. I flew across the country and into a huge snowstorm …
What did you do, work-wise, when you first landed in San Francisco?

J.B.: I moved out West to take a break from magazines but that lasted about six months. I thought I wanted to try working for a big tech company to tell stories for a global audience. And perhaps help pay off some student loans before I retire. My best friend, Carrie Levy and I art directed the rebrand campaign for Airbnb, which was a very memorable experience. To see images, shot by Emma Hardy, on billboards and buses that we had helped create and that felt a bit more artful than what you would normally expect from a tech company. We traveled around the world for six weeks, and Carrie and I still love each other to this day, ha! But as I was accepting that freelance gig out here, I met Doug McGray who was starting a new magazine [The California Sunday Magazine]. He had just asked Leo Jung to join as creative director, as the first employee. He and I met, and we chatted for a while about what the magazine might be—and he asked me to describe my photography sensibility in one word. I said: cinematic. He told me at the end of the meeting it was the same word he was using to describe what this magazine might be. I knew that I would only return to working in publishing if it was to work with kind people. Stressful work environments always stem from the top down and I feel incredibly lucky to finally work at a company that is run by a team who trusts their art department. It shouldn’t be rare in this industry, but it is.

Samantha Cooper and Michelle Groskopf on the Negotiating Styles of Male and Female Photographers
What I Didn’t Learn in Art School: Life Lessons from Photographers
How Several Female Photographers Got Started in Today’s Photo Market
The Cinematic Photography of The California Sunday Magazine
Who I’ve Hired: Paloma Shutes, The California Sunday Magazine